Desktop PC max. 1000e

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gR!ns
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Desktop PC max. 1000e

Post by gR!ns »

Heya!

We had discussion at server today. Because it seems that we have some people who knows (or think they know) something about computer components and assembling, I thought to bring this topic to public discussion :) I looked some parts to start and hopefully we can get a sensible discussion about this computer configuration. I know you are able to do it. So no trolling but sensible opinions and preferably justified. PC will come to normal use and some gaming, can cost max. 1000 euros and components from Finland.

Most of all ET must run with good (1920x1080) resolution and stable (125) fps ;)

(Prices are from Jimm's @ 3.12.2012)

MB: Asus P8Z77-V LX2, LGA1155, Intel Z77 99,90e
CPU: Intel Ivy Bridge i5-3570K 225,00e
SSD: Samsung 120GB 840 Series SSD Basic 109,90e
HDD: Seagate 1TB Barracuda, 3.5", Sata3, 7200rpm, 64MB 82,00e
MEM: Kingston HyperX 2x4GB, DDR3 1600MHz, CL9 43,00e
GPU: Asus NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 DirectCu II, 2GB 229,00e
PWR: XFX 550W Core Edition, 80+ Bronze 62,00e
DVD: Samsung SH-224BB DVD+/-RW 19,00e
--------
869,80e

I didn't chose case because I think we all have different tastes how it should look like, but there is room for it in budget.


Short justification from all parts:

MB: I think that in normal use, cheap board with all necessary outputs would be good enough.

CPU: In reviews this is barked bad because OC capability is not same as 2500k/2600k, but otherwise has same or a bit better performance and in normal use I haven't seen any problems with it. Basic cooler performs good with it. Also it costs same as 2500k, so why buy older model?

SSD: I haven't read reviews about this never model (840), but I have older (830) and it has worked well. And the older model was very good rated so I think this can't be worse. Its quite cheap too. In new PC, SSD is "must". It makes use much more quicker and smoother ;) 120Gb is enough for OS, some programs and games. Even it doesn't have same performance than 256Gb and above, it's huge step from regular HDD. So in first time use, you will se the difference still.

HDD: Just warehouse to all the stuff which don't want to store in SSD. Works fine. SATA3 don't make big difference with SATA2 in HDD, even in price. 1TB, 7200rpm, 64Mb buffer, good to go.

MEM: Almost cheapest ones. I have trusted to Kingston and modules have life time warranty. I have heard that it doesn't matter much which you buy to normal use. 8GB is enough. Can buy more later if needs.

GPU: Maybe a bit overkill, but fits in the budget :) And I think this will work for some years if you dont need to play newest games with max settings and 2560x1440 resolution :D And then classic contentious issue. Why NVIDIA? In my opinion they're a step ahead AMD about techniques ;)

PWR: Single power rail. I have read that it's more stable and gives better effective output than multi rails. XFX is quite cheap and has worked well in my PC. Also it have 5 yrs warranty which is good. Amount of watts is enough for this configuration. Maybe even more.

DVD: Does this really matter? Cheapest :)
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Re: Desktop PC max. 1000e

Post by gaoesa »

And then classic contentious issue. Why NVIDIA? In my opinion they're a step ahead AMD about techniques ;)
Did you mean ATI instead of AMD?
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Re: Desktop PC max. 1000e

Post by gR!ns »

gaoesa wrote: Did you mean ATI instead of AMD?
No, AMD bought ATI in 2006 and 2010 all cards has used only AMD brand.
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Re: Desktop PC max. 1000e

Post by gaoesa »

Ok. But indeed I think NVIDIA is better. It is working with the open 3D standard (OpenGL) a lot more active, while AMD (ATI) seems to be too deep under Microsoft to maintain good driver quality for OpenGL. With DirectX, there is no issue. But probably it is a wise thing to favour NVIDIA for a wider range of supported games/programs and their features.
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free.
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Re: Desktop PC max. 1000e

Post by free. »

idk... i just happened to again check out what options i do have in january regarding gaming laptops...

hows that:
Lenovo IdeaPad Y580 M772DGE (GERMAN: http://www.notebookinfo.de/produkte/len ... sche_Daten)

nvidia 660 gtx also
i7 quad core ivy bridge

799€

the only bad thing seems to be the monitor (1366x768 [smilie=bad.gif] ), i'd connect a FHD external anyways

how 'bout taht?
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gR!ns
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Re: Desktop PC max. 1000e

Post by gR!ns »

I think that laptop has good value for money. The screen resolution is a bit drawback, but I think that is still quite common resolution in that screen size. That model is also available with FullHD version, but its more expensive. If you going to connect it in external screen, that problem is solved.
free. wrote:nvidia 660 gtx also
It has mobile version of that graphic card, which means that performance is way more lower than in desktop model. I don't know how it will perform with FullHD resolution. I think that some kind of compromises will have to do with the image quality, at least in newer games and applications which needs performance from GPU.

One specification put me wonder in the website. Operation system: DOS [smilie=sarcastic_hand.gif] Wut?
free.
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Re: Desktop PC max. 1000e

Post by free. »

check out notebookcheck.com, there are many tests with 660gtx-laptops combined with 15 games or so and combined with low, middle, high and ultra presets.
you'll notice, that only a few games cannot be played at high/ultra-settings (CoD4: BO, Crysis 3 etc..). I dont think they would do with 'desktop'-gtx 660...

@dos: you are free to purchase a valid Operating System lincense [smilie=rtfm.gif]
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gR!ns
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Re: Desktop PC max. 1000e

Post by gR!ns »

gR!ns wrote:It has mobile version of that graphic card, which means that performance is way more lower than in desktop model.
I checked out that site and I found that you can also compare desktop models there. So I putted GTX 660 Ti and GTX 660M side by side. There weren't GTX 660, sry. Quick look proved my point, that desktop model has more performance compared with mobile version when desktop model gets double or more fps in games. GTX660 Ti is a bit improved version from GTX 660, but still, performance is way better.
gR!ns wrote:I don't know how it will perform with FullHD resolution. I think that some kind of compromises will have to do with the image quality, at least in newer games and applications which needs performance from GPU.
You already answered this to yourself. My guess was right. You need to do compromises with image quality when using Full HD (which means that you need to lower quality settings). And there were more than just few games.

You are right too. In some games you need to lower image quality with GTX 660 too. But the point wasn't that but performance between mobile and desktop models. GTX 660 represent consumer class graphic card and it is stripped version from high-end models so the its purpose is not to be the most efficient.

Once more. Don't get me wrong. I haven't said that either one would be bad choice. My point was that they're different.
free. wrote:@dos: you are free to purchase a valid Operating System lincense
Okey, it looked weird cause dos, what I know, is old operating system itself. And it ment to be joke anyway ;)
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Re: Desktop PC max. 1000e

Post by free. »

pls inform us of what u purchased finally and where also. and price ofc.
and a pic :)
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gR!ns
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Re: Desktop PC max. 1000e

Post by gR!ns »

I changed few components to this PC configuration and list look like this now:

(Prices are from Jimm's @ 14.12.2012)

MB: Asus P8Z77-V LK, LGA1155, Intel Z77 129,00e
CPU: Intel Ivy Bridge i5-3570K 225,00e
SSD: Samsung 128GB 840 Pro Series SSD 149,00e
HDD: Western Digital 1TB Caviar Black, SATA 3, 7200rpm, 64MB 99,00e
MEM: Kingston HyperX 2x4GB, DDR3 1600MHz, CL9 43,00e
GPU: Asus NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 DirectCu II, 2GB 239,00e
PWR: XFX 550W Core Edition, 80+ Bronze 62,00e
DVD: Samsung SH-224BB DVD+/-RW 19,00e
Case: Antec Three Hundred Two, ATX 93,00e
Fan: Noctua 120 x 120 x 25 NF-S12B-FLX 1200rpm 17,90e

Total: 1075,90e

MB: Reason to change mainboard is that there is more options to modify the configuration later. With this MB you can install 2 graphic cards using CrossFire or SLI. Also there's more USB-port capability, but you still need panel or equivalent component to use them. Also it has one more chassis fan power connector.

SSD: I read review of these new Samsung SSDs and seems that they've done some compromises with the basic model and thats why it is cheaper. In basic model, memory circuits have lower performance and durability. So I changed it to PRO model, cos it has better circuits and also got good performance points in tests.

HDD: If you want more performance from HDD also, I think this is the choice then.

Case: I have read good reviews about this case. This one is a bit improved model from the original 300 case. It has two USB3-ports at front, two 2,5" slots for SSDs, supports longer graphic cards for example. I think that you can get good air circulation when using front, back and top fans. It also looks quite restrained, not futuristic or led-monster.

Fan: One fan for front intake. It's quiet and effective fan.

Price went closer to 1100e, but it's not too much, I think. And these components and prices are only indicative, ofc. :)
free.
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Re: Desktop PC max. 1000e

Post by free. »

im not sure that you will feel the difference between basic / pro-SSD models of the samsung 840, save the money and get the basic one.
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Re: Desktop PC max. 1000e

Post by Salmiakki »

free. wrote:im not sure that you will feel the difference between basic / pro-SSD models of the samsung 840, save the money and get the basic one.
+1 on this. There is a difference, but it shows up mostly on benchmarks and very specific use-cases. With the pace SSDs are getting cheaper, it's not a long-term investment anyways.
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Re: Desktop PC max. 1000e

Post by gR!ns »

The best choice is just buy SSD anyway. I know that in use the differences are counted in some seconds, but still I wouldn't buy "pig in the bag" without checking backgrounds of it. If I would need to pay a few tens of euros more to be more confident for the reliability of it, I would do that.

I use my PC daily and not only for surfing or text editing so durability and reliability are important for me. I don't have interests or money to buy new parts often. Ofc ppl have different needs and ways, but this is my way to do and think things out :)

That's why I don't want to recommend something that seems to be worse choice.
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Re: Desktop PC max. 1000e

Post by Salmiakki »

gR!ns wrote:The best choice is just buy SSD anyway. I know that in use the differences are counted in some seconds, but still I wouldn't buy "pig in the bag" without checking backgrounds of it
Yes, the lamest SSD runs circles around any spinning HDD. The best combination seems to be to go for a 128-256 SSD + a few TB spinner/NAS for media/big files.
. If I would need to pay a few tens of euros more to be more confident for the reliability of it, I would do that.

I use my PC daily and not only for surfing or text editing so durability and reliability are important for me. I don't have interests or money to buy new parts often. Ofc ppl have different needs and ways, but this is my way to do and think things out :)

That's why I don't want to recommend something that seems to be worse choice.
It's (unfortunately) not "more expensive is surely more reliable". See http://www.anandtech.com/show/6483/upda ... o-failures SSDs. In theory "there is nothing to spin, so nothing to break", but in practice, for various reasons SSDs have had a far higher fail-rate than the tried-n-true disks (search for OCZ, even Intel drives, plenty of horror stories). You buy SSDs for speed, not reliability, regardless of the price.
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Re: Desktop PC max. 1000e

Post by gR!ns »

Ofc everything, regardless of the price, can break up before their time and every manufacturer has their sunday or monday pieces. That's why they give warranty :)

Yes, I have read those horror stories, but I don't take them too serious. I have worked in few "PC fist workshops" years ago and I have seen that all those stories is not how they're told. But still I agree that some hardware pieces have more problems than others.

I have had PC at home almost 20 years and only one time my HDD is broke up. That and one 10-yrs old motherboard has broke up while this time. Maybe I've been lucky or I believed my elementary school teacher when he said that "PC needs love and caring that she will work". Same time he stroked top of the monitor :D In that time I thought that he was insane, but later when I thought that again, he got good point there.

Just for curiosity Salmiakki, I would like to see your vision of 1000e desktop PC :)
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